The idea of paradise pre-dates even Judaism. The Zoroastrians believed in a paradise called Garothman. The Celts believed in a paradise they called the Fortunate Isles. The Greeks believed in the Elysium Feilds. All three of which were physical places with a physical resurection. There is absolutely nothing unique to the JW teaching, its been part of most cultures at one time or another.
Coded Logic
JoinedPosts by Coded Logic
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21
Are Jehovah's Witnesses the only religion to teach a paradise earth?
by rory-ks ini have tried researching, but this pesky organisation always packs out the list.
you seem to have to drill down several layers before reaching christadelphians.. is it a recognised idea among other peoples/religions?.
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The earth is flat...
by rory-ks in...and the ship is sailing over the edge.. .
such is the state of the watch tower society..
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Coded Logic
The Watchtower is a corporation. And a corporation will do whatever it needs to do to survive - even/especially if that means sacraficing its principles. Even if that means sacraficing some of its existing members. The WTBTS is a huge brand name with instant brand name recognition and they will make what ever changes are neccissary to meet the needs of this newer and more educated generation. The cats out of the bag - information can no longer be controlled. Think about it, five years ago vindicating Jehovah's name was the most important thing to the Jehovah's Witnesses. Now they are perfectly okay with calling themselves JWs. The enormity (meant in both senses of the word) cannot be overstated. jw.org isn't the end of the changes being made - it's just the begining.
Who knows what will come next. But the PNR has already been passed and the changes will start happening faster and faster. I would be perfectly comfortable predicting that in the next ten years the WTBTS will change more then it has in the past fifty. And the JWs of twenty years from now will be almost completely unrecognizable. Rock concert like music preformances at the kingdom halls, dancing, food, and "Jesus loves you no matter what" will all become the norm. Religion is going out fast as the "nones" become more and more prominent and the only way to keep people in religion is to make it all about sense of community and inclusion. The WTBTS will embrace all of this because it will be what's neccissary to survive. Remember, they are - and always have been - a corporation.
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Escaping the Pit
by Coded Logic inthought i'd share a little poem i wrote after getting out.. .
grappling with the fancies.
and the shadows in my mind.
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Coded Logic
Thought I'd share a little poem I wrote after getting out.
. . .
. . .
THE PIT
. . .
Grappling with the fancies
And the shadows in my mind
Fighting off the demons
On the pathways of the blind
. . .
Thought I saw a light
Through the darkness and the grit
Shinning from the bottom
Of the blackness of the pit
. . .
Like fools gold in the night
Deceptions of the haughty
Was this the true glimmer
Of our Governing Body?
. . .
There upon the knife edge
Where I sooner should have been
I found myself doubting
Those Seven wicked men
. . .
But knowing I would plummet
In a free fall of despair
My fingers grasped the edge
And I hung there in the air
. . .
I couldn't hold on long
As my strength began to wane
My compassion fading fast
As my mind became deragned
. . .
Then remembering my family
And the the world up above
I realized life's worth living
If I live a life in love
. . .
So I pulled myself up
Out of the blackness of that pit
And went searching for a light
Beyond the darkness where I'd lived
. . .
Finally free from the shadows
And the pathways of the blind
Theres a whole new world
To be explored by my mind
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Heavy metal
by Godsendconspirator ini have always loved heavy metal music (thrash metal to be more specific).
since heavy metal is usually associated with satan and occult themes many christians and jws in particular stray away from it.
in my teenagehood i was listened to it obsessively until i started studying and got baptized at age 18 and i started listening to other genres.
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Coded Logic
Funny story, when one of the MS in my kingdom hall became an elder he gave me his old Metallic CDs because he "couldn't keep them anymore and be an elder" (not sure how he rationalized giving them to a young brother like me instead of destroying them but I was happy to have them). On his computers CD drive (yes this was way back when computers still had those) he opended the tray to put the Metallica CD in so he could show me some of his favorite songs. But the Watchtower Library was already in the tray so he had to take it out before put the songs in. When he retracted the tray back into the computer the computer crashed. To which he joked, "The computer must of had a heart attack after going from the WTL to Metallica."
Looking back, it's quite facinating to me how a person who can hold two conflicting beliefs in their head simultaneously. There's nothing quite like the Compartmentalized Logic exercised by JWs.
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The Illusion of Superiority
by Coded Logic inafter reading dozens and dozens of posts and hundreds of comments, it seems to me that a great many people on this forum think that since they figured out ttatt, they must therefore be a highly intelligent and incredibly rational individual.
let me take a moment to congratulate everyone.
its a big step to figure this out - i know.. that said, it doesn't make you a genius!
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Coded Logic
I wonder what the motive of the OP is? Was it to counsel others, or was it spark a debate, or was it to prove a point, or was it just to raise awareness?
It was mostly out of fustration after witnessing several individuals accuse other people of being "illogical" when, in fact, it was the accusers in the first place who were using fallacious arguements. It's a fundamental problem, the cognitive tools neccissary to form complex logical arguements are the same tools neccissary to understand complex logical arguements. Many of these folks behavior reminded me of the Watchtower calling out other religions for their false prophecies while being completely oblivious to their own false prophecies. It's just a complete inability to exercise any sort of introspection that causes these double standards.
I had also hoped to raise the collective awareness that perhaps we should be a little more considerate (and suspect) of our own cognitive bias. And, perhaps even spark a discussion about Meta Cognition. But perhaps such a conversation would be better suited for another time.
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Rebranding of the Watchtower to JW.org - how long in the works?
by truthseeker inthe transformation from watchtower to jw.org is nothing short of remarkable.. animated cartoons (caleb and sophia), the new jw.org slogan, international convention websites (featuring previously unthinkable entertainment in the kingdom hall) - how long do you think this has been in the works for?.
i feel very uneasy about what is happening - it's so sudden, seems like it all happened within the space of a year.. i sense some intelligence about all this, as if it has been some carefully orchestated performance - to dazzle and distract.. the kingdom ministry of 1999 was totally against the internet and now they seem to embrace it along with tablets and smartphones.. why the sudden change?
do you think it is anything to do with social media?.
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Coded Logic
I suppose the real question is, will they be able to keep the beast on a leash? The Kingdom Hall meetings have long needed some serrious pick up to keep the witnesses attention. If they were smart, they would start doing special schools for the young ones during the meetings and "deeper" studies for the witnesses who have been in for a long time and have heard it all before.
Unfortunetly, from what I've read of their liturature of late - it seems like they have dumbed it down even more than before I left (which I hadn't even thought possible). But who knows, with all these changes maybe the tail will start wagging the dog.
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HELP needed for a friend, please. Anyone?..
by defender of truth ina friend of mine (who has recently started reading jwn) is having trouble eating and sleeping because, even after having recently woken up to ttatt.. they are still concerned about 'demons, everlasting destruction, and jehovahs disapproval'.. i've tried to encourage them.
i'm sure you all understand that these things can take time, the transition period is often painful, to some extent.
i'm still struggling with anger and depression myself.. i'll be away from jwn, off the internet, and thus out of contact with them for a while (don't ask why)... so please don't expect me to reply to or even look at what you post, .
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Coded Logic
Wow, so much information on this post already! Well, if your friend is looking for something on the lighter side that is super easy to digest here is a short vidoe by nonstamp collector which sums up some contradictions in the bible in a super funny way!
I recomend everyone check it out! Its a real hoot!
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The Illusion of Superiority
by Coded Logic inafter reading dozens and dozens of posts and hundreds of comments, it seems to me that a great many people on this forum think that since they figured out ttatt, they must therefore be a highly intelligent and incredibly rational individual.
let me take a moment to congratulate everyone.
its a big step to figure this out - i know.. that said, it doesn't make you a genius!
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Coded Logic
I have nothing to say about this topic except to express my surprise at Coded Logic 's surprise that this thread rubbed everyone the wrong way.
You're incorrect. I'm not surprised in the slightest at the hostile reactions on this thread. In fact, I was quite certain there would be a number of people who would take it quite personally. But at the end of the day, those people will have the tools to evaluate themselves and think about it in private. I’m certainly not expecting anyone to hop on this thread and announce, “You know what, you’re absolutely right, I don’t have nearly as good of an understanding of logic as I thought I did.”
Not to mention your use of the broad brush.
I’m not sure I follow you. My OP was NOT referencing the majority - much less everyone - on this website. In fact, I'm reasonably certian that there are people on this website that are better at logic and know more about it than I do. Rather, I was referring to the people who call other people “illogical” without consideration to their own abilities.
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The Illusion of Superiority
by Coded Logic inafter reading dozens and dozens of posts and hundreds of comments, it seems to me that a great many people on this forum think that since they figured out ttatt, they must therefore be a highly intelligent and incredibly rational individual.
let me take a moment to congratulate everyone.
its a big step to figure this out - i know.. that said, it doesn't make you a genius!
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Coded Logic
I think the question on many peoples mind in this thread is if you yourself are victim of the DK effect.
Your question illustrates my exact point. Instead of exercising a little bit of introspection and wondering “Hey, does that apply to me?” you’re instead worrying about applying it to someone else. This is not how intellectual honesty works.
Though, all that aside, I will answer your question. The reason I know I’m not in the same boat as the very people I’m concerned about is because I actually do have a solid definition of logic. And because I actually have studied Epistemology, Inductive Reasoning, Deductive Reasoning, Abductive Reasoning, Instrumental Rationality, Syllogisms, Logical Absolutes, and Synthetic and Analytic Distinctions.
And, while I don’t know EVERYTHING about logic, I at least know SOMETHING about logic. And, more importantly, I qualify my statements. When I disagree with someone I don’t just say “You’re irrational” or “You’re stupid” or, in the case of what you said to me, “You’re arrogant.”
Rather, when I disagree with someone, I seek to find out where the difference of opinion lies. I ask myself: is their premise faulty? Or is the conclusion drawn from the premises a non sequitur? Or, are both correct and it’s the conclusion that I hold that’s actually wrong?
However, when someone like yourself just makes the unqualified assertion “you’re arrogant” there’s no where for me to go. Because I don’t know why you’re saying that so I can’t address whether or not the criticism is valid or invalid.
So, once again, I’ll put the question to you, why do you think I’m being arrogant?
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The Illusion of Superiority
by Coded Logic inafter reading dozens and dozens of posts and hundreds of comments, it seems to me that a great many people on this forum think that since they figured out ttatt, they must therefore be a highly intelligent and incredibly rational individual.
let me take a moment to congratulate everyone.
its a big step to figure this out - i know.. that said, it doesn't make you a genius!
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Coded Logic
I am sorry we morons don't meet your criteria for being qualified to discuss religion and philosophy.
This is the exact sort of bad reasoning which I was referring to in my original post. You're putting forth what is known as a Straw Man Argument. Instead of addressing what was actually said you're putting words in my mouth in order to try and make me look bad. I did NOT call anyone a moron - nor did I state that anyone wasn't qualified to discuss religion and philosophy on this forum. This is not the position I hold. Rather, I was pointing out that if you're going to accuse other people of being "illogical" perhaps you should make sure you have a good understanding of what logic is yourself.
It would be like me, who is clearly not proficient at spelling, going around using misspelled words to tell other people that they are misspelling words. Even worse, would be me attempting to correct words that are already correctly spelled. No one would have a problem telling me that I'm wrong. And no one would think the person correcting me was being arrogant.
The same goes with logical aruements, this is hardly the sort of thing to get offended over. If you have a good handle on it - great. If not, I would encourage you to do a little research on the subject.
And, for those who have asked for a definition in the comments above, logic is a mental construct that we use to model reality. Just like the validity of a map is in its ability to show us where things are, the validity of logic is in its explanatory and predictive capabilities. This is important because the better model of reality we have, the better decisions we're going to be able to make.
And, instead of using Straw Man Arguments to missrepresent peoples positions, we're going to be able to discuss the actual issues at hand.
you might do well to dilute the arrogance a bit by some actual information on logic
I did provide some actual information on logic. I provided two separate metrics via which a person could objectively look at them self and determine where they might stand in regards to logic. And I also went into great detail about the Dunning-Kruger effect and how we should be aware of it when assessing our own abilities. I don't see what's so arrogant about that. But perhaps you would be kind enough to enlighten us by actually qualifying your statement instead of just making a blind assertion.